Jayme Pendergraft >> Good afternoon and welcome to today's Ticket to Work webinar, "Working for Yourself with Ticket to Work." I'm Jayme Pendergraft, director of Communications and Outreach for the Ticket Program Manager, and I'm excited to have you with us today. While we welcome — Excuse me. Welcome, all of you — Well, we welcome all of you to learn as much as possible today about the Ticket to Work Program. Our focus is on working for yourself. Before we begin with our content, let's cover some important logistics. 

First, please know that all attendees will be muted throughout today's webinar. When asked "how do you want to join the meeting's audio," please select the system's default option. This will enable the sound to be broadcast through your computer. Make sure your speakers are turned on or your headphones are plugged in to access the sound. If you do not have sound capabilities on your computer or prefer to listen by telephone, select the "connect with phone audio" button on the previous slide and the dial-in option. Dial 1-800-832-0736 and then enter the access code 4189148#. You can also use the "join the meeting audio via receive a phone call," as shown in the image on the screen, and enter the same number and access code. Now let's review the Adobe Connect platform. 

First, you will notice different boxes on your screen. These boxes are called pods. We have the presentation pod, and this is where the slide deck appears. That's the largest portion of your screen. Below that is an open space for the placement of the closed captioning pod. The top right corner is the Q&A pod. Below that is the Web Links pod. We'll talk about these pods in more detail shortly, but first we want to mention accessibility. Real-time captioning is available and is displayed in the captioning pod below the slides. You can show or hide the captioning display and can also choose the text size and text color combinations to best meet your vision preferences. To open closed captioning, select the CC option from the top menu bar. The captioning link can also be accessed in the Web Links pod under the title "Web Captioning." You can also access captioning online in a separate viewing window. The choice is up to you and your preference. 

If you're fluent in American Sign Language, or ASL, and would like support during today's webinar, we developed a resource that provides instructions on how to connect with an interpreter through the Federal Communications Commission, FCC's Video Relay Service, also known as VRS. The ASL user guide can be found in the Web Links pod under the title ASL User Guide. We're here today to answer questions that you may have about the Ticket to Work Program. Please send your questions to us at any time throughout the webinar by typing them into the Q&A pod. We'll then direct the questions to our speaker during the Q&A portions of our webinar. We will address questions at three different points during the presentation, so please send us your questions and we'll do our best to get to as many questions as possible. Due to this platform, we're not allowed to answer personal questions, so please keep your questions general. And remember, please do not put any personally identifiable information, or PII, in the Q&A, like your Social Security number or a phone number, for example. If you're listening by phone and aren't logged into the webinar, you can also ask questions by e-mailing them to TTWwebinars@ssa.gov. 

Another valuable resource that we think you'll find very useful is our Web Links pod. This pod is in the bottom right of your screen and lists the links of the resources covered in today's webinar. To access these resources, please select the topic of interest and access the resource to learn more. When you click a resource in the Web Links pod, it will open a window in your Internet browser. If you're listening by phone and are not logged into the webinar, you may e-mail TTWwebinars@ssa.gov for a list of available resources, or you may reference your confirmation e-mail for today's webinar to access a list of available resources. Also, please remember that Social Security cannot guarantee and isn't responsible for the accessibility of external websites. We hope that everyone — Just going to go back one slide for just a moment. We hope that everyone has a great experience during today's webinar. However, if you experience any technical difficulties during the webinar, please use the Q&A pod to send a message or e-mail us. Again, that e-mail address is TTWwebinars@ssa.gov. 

It's now my pleasure to introduce our moderator and presenters for this webinar. Our moderator, who will also do some presenting today, is Ray Cebula. Ray received his law degree from the University of New Hampshire's Franklin Pierce School of Law. He spent 23 years providing legal services to individuals with disabilities in their interactions with Social Security and then became part of Cornell University's Work Incentive Support Center, and in 2005 joined the staff of Cornell's Yang-Tan Institute on Employment and Disability. He now serves as the program director of YTI Online, which is Cornell's Work Incentive Practitioner Credentialing program. Joining Ray today will be Derek Shields to focus on our featured topic, working for yourself. Derek brings 30 years of experience in disability services. He currently serves as Senior Employment Network Development and Training Manager with the Ticket Program Manager. In addition to his role here, Derek holds a master’s degree in management and disability services, is president of ForwardWorks Consulting, and serves as advisory council co-chair of the National Disability Mentoring Coalition. I will now welcome Ray to review our agenda and begin the presentation. 

Ray Cebula >> Thank you, Jayme. I'm really happy today that we have an audience full of people who might want to consider self-employment as a means to returning to work. It's popular now amongst Vocational Rehabilitation agencies, so there's a lot of support. And my buddy Derek is going to be able to give you some of that information after I take you through today's agenda and a bit about the Ticket to Work Program. 

So, if we look at the agenda, today we're going to help you answer questions related to what is Social Security's Ticket to Work Program? Why consider self-employment? What happens when you begin starting your business? Resources for self-employment, and who can help you achieve your work goals. So, what is Social Security's Ticket to Work Program? Before we get into the niceties of the Ticket to Work Program, we have to talk about the two disability programs that Social Security administers: the first one being Social Security Disability Insurance, SSDI, or Title II. That program is an insurance program. As one works either in self-employment or regular employment, you're paying FICA taxes. As you pay those FICA taxes, you begin to earn credits for the insurance. Once you are insured, should you suffer a disability, you may be able to draw from your contributions and qualify for SSDI. The other program, Supplemental Security Income, or SSI, is a very, very different program. This is a needs-based program rather than the insurance nature of SSDI. And because of that, we're looking at people's income and resources before they can qualify. They do have to have a disability, which is the same definition of disability used in the other program, and they have to have limited resources and income, not requiring a work history or enough of a work history for insurance purposes. Again, very different programs. The Work Incentives we're going to talk about can apply to both, but we need to consider that each benefit being paid by Social Security has a particular set of Work Incentives that apply to each one. 

So what is the Ticket Program? This Ticket Program is a free and voluntary service program of the Social Security Administration. It offers career development for people aged 18 through 64, who receive a Social Security Disability benefit and want to work — in this case, want to start their own business. How can this help? How can the program help? The Ticket to Work Program connects you with free employment services that are going to help you decide if work, including self-employment, is right for you — give you options, and you can make a decision. Prepare for work — is there a skill set that you need to obtain before you can begin your own business? Are there any certifications? Any training? What else do you need to do to prepare for your business to open? How about finding a paid-work opportunity? It could be that a beneficiary of one or the other benefits could potentially get into a paid work experience in that type of business that you want to open. Very wonderful experiences. And then how to succeed at work once you have opened your business. You know, we're in the business of making sure you can succeed, so we can help you with that. You can learn more at these links in the web pod — "What is Social Security's Ticket to Work Program?" — and there's a self-guided tutorial in there for you. The Ticket to Work Help Line is a great place to start. And this Help Line offers toll-free help. I'm sorry, I gotta do this again. The Ticket to Work Program offers a toll-free Help Line to answer your questions and support you on your journey to financial independence. The Help Line is available Monday through Friday, 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. Eastern Time, and the number is 1-866-968-7842, or for TTY users, 1-866-833-2967. We'll be giving you that number again later on. So that being said, I am going to turn it over to my buddy Derek, who's going to take you through some of the niceties of your journey to self-employment. It's all yours, Derek. 

Derek Shields >> Ray, thank you so much for reviewing the Ticket to Work Program and setting us up for today's session on Working for Yourself with the Ticket to Work. I appreciate you being with us, and I look forward to being back with you for our two Q&A sessions. But let's not get ahead of ourselves. Today we are really addressing this notion of why consider self-employment. It is a question we hear often. Every month we have a Work Incentive seminar/webinar, and in the chat we always get this question “can the Ticket to Work Program support me if I want to work for myself?” And of course, the answer is yes, and Ray has indicated that there's a trend in this direction, and we look forward to exploring that content in ways that can help you make your informed choices. So, with that we will get started. 

What is self-employment? And, you know, you could have your own perspectives on this. And what we wanted to do was to help frame some common approaches to types of self-employment. And it is exactly what it sounds like, of course — working for yourself — but what that looks like does vary widely depending on your goals and your skill sets and your preferences on how to approach this journey to work and to financial independence. Some people, of course, will choose that more traditional route of owning a business, that first one we have listed on the slide, and I think we can look at that as more of your classic entrepreneur type model, where you have a plan, you then implement that plan and build and run a company. However, there's a lot of different ways that also could use plans and could be self-employment. Independent consultants is a growing trend. You could hear this referred to as a few different ways — independent consultant, some folks like to throw around IC, a short acronym there, or this could be a 1099-type contractor — the 1099 reference being an IRS 1099 form, and that's used to really gather payment information that typically isn't from a direct employer. So in that type of role, that independent consultant role, you could be part of a team, you know, for a longer period of time, but you're not employed by the company. You've chosen to be self-employed and operate independently but can perform those tasks and work for that client. 

And then we have the third one there: work as a freelancer. And that third variety involves moving from short-term projects from one to another. And sometimes you might hear people refer to this as "gig work" or like a "gig economy." And in some cases, that could be freelancing. It also could be an independent consultant approach too to short-term work, so there could be a blend. And I know a lot of people who do this kind of work because it fits more of a specialty area. You know, for an example, I know graphic designers that can take on projects. You know, we've been hearing a lot recently about logo redesigns, and the logo redesign is a short-term specialty project. So that's an example. Or you can think of, like, accessibility. You could have an accessibility expert come in. Maybe a person with a disability that uses assistive technology. They could do a test or an audit on a website and then help remediate the website to make that more accessible. So those are two examples. Another one, you know, as a freelancer, could be an editor taking on assignments as they become available to edit. And, you know, all these individuals are considered self-employed, even though their work styles and the industry examples that I provided — graphic design, accessibility testing and editing — are, of course, very different. So while the paths of these three — owning a business, working as an independent consultant, or working as a freelancer — look different and sound different, they all fall into that same destination and path of self-employment. And it's about finding the right structure for you to help make you set forward on a path for success. 

Now, we want to talk a little bit today about some trends that are out there, because there are a lot of new jobs and there's some trends that we look at around self-employment, not just through vocational rehabilitation or disability employment service providers, but across the American market in general. Self-employment isn't really just a flexible option. It's also a growing one. And here we have some data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics that forecast by the year 2026, self-employment job opportunities will be outgrowing growth for standard employment, 7.9% compared to 7.4% growth. So while it's only a half a percent, it is significant to say that self-employment is going to be growing faster. And so I wanted to dig into that to look at some other trends too, because I've read a lot of articles on this. Forbes has cited that 64 million Americans are engaged in freelancing in some capacity in the year 2023. That's 64 million people in some capacity. That's a significant number. That's around 38% of the workforce. While the Current Population Survey, another survey tool, reported about 16.5 million people were fully self-employed. That's over 10% of the American workforce. So whether it's 8% like we have on the screen, 7.9%, or a 10% or 38%, we are talking about a growing portion of the workforce, and service providers are becoming much more competent in how to assist people with transitioning into self-employment. And here we have some of the fastest growing self-employment jobs listed — Construction workers, childcare workers, hairstylists, real estate agents and management analysts to list a few. These are obviously very varied types of fields, but they share that one thing in common that cuts through all of them — they offer individuals a chance to take control of their work, build their own client base, and shape a professional path. And so that path is less of a traditional career path, where you might start as an entry-level position and have a so-called career ladder. 

Now, there's others too, that aren't listed here. And you might be saying, "Well, I don't fit these," but there's others that are out there, you know, like taxi drivers or these car services, landscaping and painters or some other kind of blue-collar type positions. But we have trends around coding and other development and technology positions, marketing, and a growing sector around virtual assistants, people that are helping others in organization and task management. So these can be included too. And a lot of this trend generally is around project-based work that delivers more instant pay and flexibility than traditional employment models. And I like that. I'm going to repeat it. Project-based work that delivers instant pay. These models get fast payment terms, and they have increased flexibility compared to traditional employment models. So while the data can help us all understand, you know, why so many Ticket to Work participants are curious about self-employment and why it's worth exploring, it is just to start. So if you wanted to explore that data and these reports a little bit more, we have a link here to the Small Business Options Outlook report from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, and you can get that in the Web Links pod, as Ray was also pointing you to these things. It's item number eight. So, there's some trends for us to consider when we're thinking about self-employment. 

Now let's turn to consider that self-employment. We do recommend, strongly recommend, that before you decide pursuing self-employment to recognize first that there's a lot to consider. And so we're going to go through some pros and cons, and we're not here to discourage you. In fact, we're here to encourage you and empower you with this information to help set you in that right path. But with that in mind, self-employment can be exciting, and it can be rewarding. Just talk to somebody who has, you know, started a business and has lasted, and they'll tell you about that journey and how it's felt to them. It does involve planning, learning a lot, and navigating a lot of complex decisions. Now, that's that more traditional model. Perhaps it's a little less so for some freelancing models, or a little bit less so for some independent consulting models. But in all of this, it's understanding your approach, your structure, for the business and, of course, managing finances and considering how all that may impact your benefits, whether you're on SSDI or SSI or potentially both. That's a lot, of course, to take in, and with this, it could become overwhelming. So thinking about that, let's begin looking at seven of these key questions that we have listed to help you think through self-employment. 

First, this first bullet, what interests you? And this is key. Finding your passion for something that you can commit to that's built around a skill or a hobby. Could any of them become a business? This is a path to look for a successful idea that can meet a real need in the community or in the market. So researching your community and market to, in effect, make your case. This is my skill, this is my passion, and is there anyone doing it, or doing it in the way that I could deliver that product or service. Next, speaking of services, what will you offer and who in that market is interested to potentially be your customer? For example, you know, we talked about different fields. If you're a hairdresser, is there a demand in your area? Can you find a space geographically to locate where there isn't someone providing that service and help you schedule and target your customers? Then, of course, ask yourself, what does success look like? What will happen if it doesn't work out too? So, success could be booking those clients and having a chair in a shared hairdresser store. But if I'm unable to do that, being in that shared store is decreasing my overhead cost. I'm not owning or leasing the entire space. I'm leasing a chair. And so that... And I could be assisted in my marketing by the other hairdressers, and collectively we could make a plan together. Sometimes this can be easier done by partnering with other independent consultants too. And of course, what if things don't go as planned? You know, having a plan B, what is your backup strategy, and if that's someone you can partner with or saying, "I'm going to give myself a certain amount of time to attempt this path to self-employment, knowing what success looks like. If I don't achieve it, then I can say, 'Well, I tried it,' but my plan B is this," and having that kind of part of your bigger scheme or bigger approach. Are you ready? You know, do you have that business plan, or do we need to talk to somebody to create that business plan? And we'll talk about that in the next section. Of course, what will your expenses be? Do you have enough funding to get started and to stay afloat? If you have to go into a landscaping position, what are the required equipment pieces that you have, what do you have to procure, and how long will you have to potentially pay that back? So, making a financial plan is so critical too, of course. And then at the last, how can Social Security support your journey? And that's why the Ticket to Work team, in the broadest sense, the employment team, is available to you. Those that are receiving SSDI and SSI and want to work can leverage those service provider team members and Work Incentives that we'll be discussing to assist in that journey. So, yes, these are seven big questions, but we put them here because they're essential to ask yourself, do I want to go forward to prepare for self-employment, and if I can start to frame my answers to these questions, then I'm probably going to be better prepared to talk to somebody about my business idea and the plan to get there. 

Alright, speaking of that, what is a business plan? So, of course, a business plan is that guide to structure, run and grow a business, but it's also, you know, if you're going into self-employment, it's also your personal plan to get from where you are to work — and meaningful work. This is your own business. This is going to be something that you have a lot of thought and energy that goes into it, that outlines those main elements of operations. So, structurally it would have a high-level summary, an overview of what the business plan will cover. But then inside of it you could describe in a short, concise manner what the company's objective is or what your independent consulting or freelancing services are, what your marketing and sales approach is, who you're targeting for clients, and then how we're going to communicate with those people to let them know what it is that you're doing. That financial projection, including a financial plan and a statement that provides that overview of your projected revenue, compares to expenses. And I'll tell you, doing that a couple times, creating a business plan, but specifically the financial projections, that can be challenging if you haven't done it before. But the cool part about it is, is that there's a lot of resources to assist you and there's a lot of people that have come before you that all that information and support becomes available to you. So while it might feel daunting, it's possible to get the help, and you can get the help with defining your idea and goals, estimating costs and profit, and creating the plan, that outreach plan, to reach customers. So with this in mind, business plan is important. We'll talk about that with specific Work Incentives in a little bit. 

But with that in mind, let's turn now to look at some of those pros and cons I mentioned. The first part would of course be these pros, or the benefits of self-employment. And we have listed here five, and I'm going to go through them in order and add a couple thoughts on them. But certainly the first one, you know, it does come with a lot of benefits. Certainly, if you put in the work, self-employment has some clear benefits, and the first is that you're in charge. You can make your decisions and steer the business purpose, the services or products, in the direction you want. That kind of control can be really empowering. You know, if you've had a previous work experience where it's a more of a traditional model, you have a supervisor and you have a position description. All of that construct is given to you and you operate in it. Self-employment becomes different. You know, your contract with the client or your purchase order with the client becomes that, but you can choose a lot of things, and the flexibility is because you're in control. You're also doing something you enjoy, and I think that's really important to consider, right? You like it and you're excited about it. That motivation will allow you to take each step through the business planning process and the business implementation process. And you're going to need that motivation because it, at times, might not be easy. But that flexibility is one of the biggest perks, and you can set your own schedule. You can determine where and when you prefer to work. And you might even have a chance to choose who you work with and create that work environment, you know, if you're hiring people or partnering with people, that really fits your style. You know, do their values and approach align with mine? And that's unique to self-employment in many, many ways. On top of that, you have the creative freedom to shape those services, the brand, and the approach that fits your vision. And, you know, in this regard, it's not just working for yourself, it's about building something that feels truly yours and that could potentially have a positive impact for others. So, some significant benefits there for sure. In addition, when you're self-employed, you get to learn a lot. And personally, I never thought I would learn the amount I have learned by starting a business. Well, starting several businesses. But over the years, starting organizations, I never thought that we would learn as much as we have to learn. But the reality is you're always picking up these new skills, and so you have to have an interest in the skill set kind of evolution and gaining knowledge that would help you grow. A lot of people enjoy adult experiential learning, and it's kind of a lifelong commitment to learning. And if you say, "That's me," then going down a self-employment path is a commitment to lifelong learning, too. So you could say, "Well, those two things are me." Someone else might be listening now and saying, "That is not me. I don't want to learn that much." It's something to consider in your inventory of decision making here. So, you can also set up your workspace and choose the tools that you use. We often hear that it's tough to disclose a disability and request a reasonable accommodation and have a supportive employment or employer model provide that without going through a lot of hurdles. Now, if you're self-employed, then you get to choose what reasonable accommodations are being provided or any other adjustments you need to be comfortable and productive. Of course, this access to reasonable accommodation is something you can define how you do it. Along with that, you can also decide, you know, what tasks you want to do and what you want to outsource to others. In a business that I work in, I love focusing on disability employment services, helping others find pathways to work. What I don't love doing is accounting and finance. That gets outsourced to others who have specialties in that. They have training and certification. They do that. I have a peace of mind because they do that. Those same folks would never do disability employment service-related work. They don't have the background in that, of course, but you're in charge of your routine and you could, you know, mix it up as you see fit. And that gives you a chance to meet a lot of new people, build those strong relationships, and of course, that meaningful network and, that last bullet there, you know, growing a network that will help support your goals, and we hope you're going to be able to support others with their goals too. So that's when you work for yourself, you get access to these flexibilities. 

Now onto the con side. Of course, there's more to the story. Self-employment, as I mentioned, might not be for everybody, so let's review some of these disadvantages. First, lack of a stable income. It can be unpredictable, especially when you're starting up. So in that finance plan, you need to figure out how much money you need to live on and see that pathway to get there. Second, we need new businesses. Many new businesses don't succeed. In fact, about 22% of businesses don't last a year, and about half of all businesses don't make it past five years. So thinking about that, that's the data that's important. It's important to talk to other people about your business plan and see what they can provide for recommendations for your success. You may have long hours, of course, difficulty finding first clients and customers for those paid opportunities. And, yes, this is stressful. There can be high levels of stress, and are you at a point in life where some of that is going to be acceptable? And then we have the potential costs that are involved for business licenses, insurance, tax, and legal considerations. That might be more important on some models, but less important in a freelancing model. It really depends. If you want to read more about the disadvantages, we have a link here to an Indeed article called "Six Common Self-Employment Disadvantages," and that is at number nine in the Web Links pod. So, getting started with self-employment can feel like a big step, and that's perfectly normal. If it wasn't, then we would be a little concerned. But to help you begin, we have three questions to think through. What kind of self-employment are you interested in? Are you planning to start a business as a freelancer or something else? What services or products will you offer? And where will you work? So these three questions you might have some answers to, or this could be the first time that you're considering them. Even though it's the first time, writing down some of your ideas will be a first step in shaping your plan. What kind of self-employment out of those options we talked about? What service or product will you offer? And where will you work? And that will be the first step in that business planning process. With that in mind, we've laid some of the groundwork. And as we talked about before, we want to talk specifically about a few more Work Incentives that are around that. 

So on this slide, we have those three big questions that I was just speaking to. Let's get into the Work Incentives, though. Social Security, of course, provides Work Incentives that are special rules or programs, kind of whatever approach you like to take, that support people with disabilities who are receiving benefits and want to work. These Work Incentives are really important, and Ray and I will talk about them in our Q&A, I'm sure. They're designed to make it easier to earn money while keeping your important benefits like health care, and in some cases, continuing to receive Social Security payments as you're working, receiving income, receiving your health care coverage, and continuing to receive Social Security payments. So they're designed to build a lot of flexibility for you. And, you know, we have a list here of some of the specific value — receive training for new skills, improve the skills you already have, and then importantly, pursue needed education, training or certification, you know, depending upon your specific goals, trying different jobs, including self-employment and starting that career, but most importantly, gaining confidence. The Work Incentives can give you a pathway with flexibility that should increase your confidence. And what we wanted to do today is to look at some specific Work Incentives around self-employment. If you want to explore all Work Incentives, Web Links pod number 10 — go in there and check it out. 

Alright. Those three that we're going to talk about today are now on the slide. Social Security has Work Incentives that can help you pursue self-employment, and we have the Plan to Achieve Self-Support, Property Essential for Self-Support, and Unincurred Business Expenses. So our employment team can help you navigate these, but what we want to do is increase your awareness about them so when you do start talking about self-employment with a service provider, you're familiar with these Work Incentives because, first, some of them require you to do certain things, but most importantly, they give you the flexibility to be more successful on your path to self-employment. So here we have the first one — the Plan to Achieve Self-Support, or PASS. And the first thing that we'll mention is that the PASS is, you know, it's a powerful tool, and we talk about it frequently, that helps you reach career goals for sure. To use PASS, you'll need to create a written plan. And this is for people that have SSI. Remember I talked about SSDI and SSI? You see this icon on the slide, SSI. So you have to be on the supplemental program in order to qualify for PASS. And if you qualify, the plan written for you can help you achieve that specified work goal. The Work Incentive allows you to set aside money to pay for the items or services you need to achieve your work goal, and that includes things like education, a computer for school or for work — if you're going back to school to get the education or training, or if you need that computer for work — business start-up costs. If you have that business plan and it identifies the needed items that the business will have to have in order to operate, well, those can be in that PASS plan. And we have a car because you need transportation potentially to perform your duties, you know, of employment under that business or independent consulting model. So the PASS can cover a lot of these things, and they're a great option, and they can be complicated, so that's why we keep saying get help with writing these things or get help with the Work Incentives through a service provider who we'll cover in a little bit. There are a couple links here — Creating a PASS — that's a FAQ, and that's available in the Web Links pod — and Using Your PASS. That is a fact sheet that's also available in the Web Links pod. So we love the PASS plan. Be sure to check that out. 

Now that we talked about that, let's talk about Property Essential to Self-Support. This is the second Work Incentive, or the PESS. It's an incentive that's available to individuals who receive SSI. Again, the SSI icon is on this slide. And this is designed to protect certain property from being counted as a resource when determining your eligibility, so it's really important. So, you know, property from being counted, it can be left out as a resource when determining eligibility. Under PESS, Social Security will not count property that you use to earn income. And if this is a self-employment model and that property is involved, then let's say you have a farm or you have a hairdresser or beauty salon, that could also, you know, include the tools or the equipment for work. It could even include government permits, that third bullet there — you know, things like something that you need to produce income. If you were into fishing, a commercial fishing permit. So all of those could be included with the PESS. It's also important to remember when you do all this the importance of banking. So your business bank account is also excluded from resource limits. So when we talk about the PASS or the PESS, you have to start thinking about, "Well, I have my personal banking, but I also need to have separate business banking," because we want to make sure that these resources and finances are clearly separated. 

Alright. And the last one that we're going to talk about is the Unincurred Business Expense. This is the third Work Incentive, and this one is for SSDI recipients, and you'll see that icon in the upper right. If your earnings from work go above the Substantial Gainful Activity threshold — that's that set monthly amount — Social Security may consider that you're no longer disabled under their rules. But it's not about total income. It's specifically about how much you earn from work activity. And that's where this business expense comes in. They help lower the amounts of earnings Social Security counts towards that Substantial Gainful Activity, even if you didn't pay for the expenses yourself. So for an example, if you need a computer to run your business and you access that computer through the State Vocational Rehabilitation agency, they pay for it, well, Social Security will treat that computer as a business expense. So if you had, let's say, $1,300 in income, but that VR-provided computer was $300, well, that would be subtracted. So $1,300 actually becomes $1,000. So that's how Social Security would treat that. So this incentive can really make a big difference in how earnings are viewed, especially in the early stages of self-employment. So something to think about. Alright, and now we have one last slide, and then we're going to get right back in here and have a conversation. 

The last slide is something that's really important too, and it's working your network. We've talked about different types of self-employment, we've talked about the benefits and some disadvantages, and then we went through the important Work Incentives that you can use and business planning. Well, now we have to figure out, "Well, how are the people that I'm connected with or could be connected with, help me achieve my self-employment goals," and networking can give you an opportunity to access untapped talent. One way is through finding a mentor. I mentioned my weakness was around accounting and finance. Well, I've always had a mentor in that area who's given me good advice and guidance on must haves and should haves in other areas where they can say, "Derek, don't worry about that as much. You know, outsource this too." So that's something that you can consider. Would you be able to find a mentor to help you in your business planning and implementation model? And you can, of course, do networking virtually on a platform like LinkedIn or, you know, hit up an event in a community, like a meetup to find people. Finding someone who has started a small business prior or has been an independent consultant — this is a great idea, perhaps more of a peer mentor in that way, getting their advice, but then you can also be sharing some advice back in return to assist each other. And the last idea in networking here is an idea around tapping people that you know, friends and family, of course. Normally, we run out of those folks, right? We only have so many close family members, and we only have so many friends. And I wouldn't discourage you after that happens. What we do know in networking is that we get the most from the weakest ties we have in our relationships. So if you're meeting somebody you don't know yet and it feels uncomfortable, in fact, research on networking says lean into that. You're more likely to make a new relationship that would have better work outcomes for you than those with the family or friends. So keep that in mind. Weak ties can help you in your networking as you go through the idea of planning to launch a business or become an independent consultant or a freelancer. Well, Ray, we've gone through quite a bit. I wanted to bring you back in. We're at our first Q&A. 

Ray >> Thank you, Derek. Thanks for sharing a lot of information. And I think looking at the disadvantages, as well as the advantages, is very important because we need to know our tolerance for such things as risk taking and failure in this. But got a lot of information, and from what you said about statistics, it still looks like a good gamble. So, we do have lots of questions, and there is a group of people who has asked similar questions, but I'm gonna read one to you. "I really like the idea of self-employment, but before I jump into starting my own business, will I lose my health care?" 

Derek >> Derek. Yeah. Thanks, Ray. As you know, that's one of the most asked questions we receive. You know, maybe today it's around self-employment, but it's always around, "Will I lose my health care?" It's so important to know that health care is one of the most protected benefits under Social Security's rules and programs. Those Work Incentives are there to really help protect health care access. And that could be whether you're on SSI with Medicaid or if you have SSDI with Medicare. And it's difficult to lose your coverage just because you're working and your income increases and just because it's self-employment and your income increases. So keep that in mind first. It's one of the largest myths that we have, and for literally generational now, we're trying to dispel that myth. That said, as your earnings do grow, you might be responsible for paying premiums at some point, but that is the goal, I think, especially if we think about starting a business, that at first you're gonna leverage Work Incentives. They're gonna give you the flexibility to potentially draw down that total income number for a period of time that lets you transition in. But we want you to be successful. So, if your business starts operating and you start earning more, then at some point you would look to full-time self-employment success, which would mean that you could begin paying for premiums. And in the big scheme of it, that would see you in running a business. If the business is very successful, then you would be able to afford, through the business, health care coverage that would replace what you have today. There are a couple examples with the Medicaid buy-in. Of course, that allows people to lose their SSI benefits due to that work income to keep Medicaid by paying the monthly premium. You could do that. And then with Medicare — that's on the SSDI side — there's another Work Incentive — we didn't get into it today — but the extended period of eligibility. And that can last up to seven and a half years after your Trial Work period ends. So, if you're just starting out and you have your Trial Work Period and you put that together with the seven-and-a-half-year access to Medicare, we are not losing health care anytime soon. You have access to that for a very long time. And if your business makes it over five years, you're more likely in that situation to be able to continue and figure out a new health care solution. So, something really important there. You know, a last note there — if you're not receiving the benefit, the Social Security isn't going to automatically deduct your premium, so you'll need to pay them out of pocket. And I think, you know, this starts to get a little complicated. What we encourage you to do is not try to learn all that on your own, but work with a service provider who can advise you on how to make sure that healthcare isn't vanishing and you're not surprised by something. 

Ray >> Okay. Thank you. Thank you for that great information. I just wanted to echo Derek's remarks about Work Incentives. These programs are going to protect your health care because you are a recipient who is working. They're not available to people who remain on benefits and don't give any of this a shot. But as Derek said, it's tough to lose your health care. We do have another question. "If my sister helps me design a website for my business and doesn't charge me for her time or expertise, would that be an unincurred business expense?" 

Derek >> This is Derek again. That's a really good question. And, you know, I'll start an answer, Ray, and I'll ask you maybe to chime in, too, there. Technically it doesn't count as an incurred business expense. You know, I used that model of buying the computer. This is more of, like, outsourcing, you know, a design, but there's no charge. So it would go under something that's labeled unpaid help. And so then you have to go down a pathway of determining that unpaid help value. And so, you know, that's an assessment of the type of work she did, designing the site, maybe the communications and handling any inquiries, then researching what's a typical rate that somebody in that area would be paid. So, let's say that rate is a nice graphic designer rate for $20 an hour. You would have to multiply that by the total hours that she tracked and contributed. And then that can be used as a deduction from your income. So it's not an unincurred business expense, but it shows you that there's one other way outside of that that you can also deduct services that were provided from your income. And it seems like when you start building all of that as your toolkit, you could draw your income down through unincurred business expense and that unpaid help. Ray, when I say that example, is there anything that you would want to tag on to that from your career? 

Ray >> Yeah. You know, I think that's a great example, and I may use it to update my old examples. It's more up to date with the times. But I think that graphic designer, you know, could become a business lifelong unpaid help. If your sister's there to continue to run interference, if there's a glitch on your website, you know, or if it's got to be updated with new products come in that you're selling, and just the maintenance of it, you know, could be a continuous unpaid — God, what am I talking about? — you know, an unpaid help situation, you know? So, it's a really good example, you know, and it also gives you the distinction between the unincurred business expense and the unpaid help. You know, so, if your sister's nice in this case, this could last a long time. Alright, Derek, I think we — 

Derek >> Thanks for that, Ray. This is Derek again. I just wanted to say, I mean, what you did is you just gave us a strategy that said, instead of paying the sister, if she could afford it, continue it as unpaid, leaving it as a deduction from income for as long as possible, and make sure that an advisor from the employment team is giving you feedback, too, on that. I like that idea a lot. 

Ray >> Yeah. Alright, Derek, that's gonna do it for this session. I'm gonna turn it back to you to take us further along. 

Derek >> Excellent. And thank you, everyone, for submitting your questions. Ray and I will be back for a second Q&A, so we encourage you to continue submitting. And we have 10 minutes set up for the next session, and we look forward to addressing those. Alright, our next one is around some resources. You know, we are providing a lot of information, and some of you might be like, "Wow, this is a lot, and I'm gonna need to figure out my next steps." And that's what we're gonna get into now. While it could feel like a lot, there are a good number of resources available, and our employment team is available. So, if self-employment seems like the right thing to do, know that there's gonna be some supports available. 

Let's first talk about a couple organizations that could provide you some assistance. The Small Business Administration we have up on the screen now plays a key role in maintaining and strengthening the economy by supporting small businesses. There is a lot of guidance, resources, and protection for entrepreneurs through the range of services they provide. And I personally find that their resources help take you from that 22% not making it — and or only 22% making it — to 50% making it in the fifth year because you're tapping into a group like the Small Business Administration. They have really key technical assistance, they have assistance in financing and in contracting, and they have a lot of good information on laws and regulations. So, when you get into navigating startup, navigating financing and contracting management, and then trying to figure out, "Well, what are the laws around running a company and what do I have to navigate?" — Well, this is a learning center, so we encourage you to explore sba.gov to learn more about those resources for sure. Next, we have a resource called Disability:IN. This is a nonprofit resource for disability inclusion worldwide. Disability:IN partners with companies to drive progress in disability and accessibility through a lot of programming in a variety of different research and tools. And they're trying to grow disability employment in business. With that in mind, they also have other programming that focuses on developing, like, next-gen leaders with disabilities through mentoring, talent acquisition databases to, you know, find talent with disabilities or disabled veterans. And then another area they do — and we're calling it out today — is they certify disability-owned business enterprises to include veteran disability owners, service disabled-veteran-owned businesses, and to link them to these companies that are looking to diversify their supply chains. So, what is diversification of a supply chain? Companies — large companies — have tier 1 and tier 2 subcontracting programs, and they want to and do commit to finding businesses that are disability-owned and veteran-owned and try to give business to those small businesses to help them succeed. So, if you're disabled and you start a business, consider Disability:IN's disability-owned business enterprise program. They call that DOBE. And the DOBEs have a hub where you get advertised, and so companies can come in, find out about your services, and then we'll reach out and connect and then potentially order through that hub. If you do start a business, there's a link here in the Web Links pod to getcertified@disabilityin.org. That's number 17. Alright, so, the SBA and Disability:IN. I also mentioned that Ticket to Work published a blog today that has six key characteristics for working for yourself. And one of those leads to more resources, like the National Disability Institute's Small Business Hub is listed in there, too, and there's a lot of great resources and people out there trying to provide training and other resources and guides to help. 

But for now, we're gonna turn and focus on another direction. We're gonna talk about who can help you achieve your work goals from our portfolio of service providers. And so, with that, starting a business, of course, is gonna be exciting. It's gonna be a little bit stressful, too. But for Ticketholders that are navigating disability benefits and starting a business or turning to freelancing, it comes with a lot of different or unique situations. And with that, you need to know you are not alone. We have a team of professionals and organizations that Social Security has brought together to help you turn from your self-employment goals or the thinking that you have right now into reality. And this can range in a lot of different areas, from that business planning process to understanding how the Work Incentives apply to each situation. The supports are designed to guide you through every step of the process, and this section is gonna introduce us to all of those key players. And hopefully you'll find one that's a great match for you in terms of a service provider and your self-employment goals. So, specifically we're gonna dive into two. We're gonna focus on the Ticket Program service providers called Employment Networks and the State Vocational Rehabilitation agencies. Both service providers specialize in helping people with disabilities, of course, that are eligible for their programming to explore work options. And, you know, while Employment Networks have been around for a couple decades, the State Vocational Rehabilitation system has been around for a much, much longer time. Perhaps you've heard of both. But the legacy is around helping people find pathways to work for the first time, or to try work for a second time, to return to work. And together, these providers are the cornerstone of the employment team that we speak to. So, let's take a closer look at each one of them to make sure you know, when you're reaching out to one of them or both of them, what they offer. An EN, or an Employment Network — we call them ENs — it's a public or private organization that partners with Social Security to offer free employment support services to individuals eligible for the Ticket to Work Program. Well, if you refer back to what Ray said earlier, right, we have the eligibility requirements through SSI or SSDI and age 18 through 64. So, we're looking at participation in the benefits system, SSDI or SSI, and that age requirement. If you qualify, you have access to those services. Some ENs, as it mentions at the bottom — many of them — are state public workforce systems. These are workforce ENs in what we call American Job Centers. And there's over 2,000 of these across the country. Many of them are participating as workforce ENs. So, those are the Employment Networks. They can help you prepare for interviews. They have practice-session type things or tips just to boost your confidence. And we'll look specifically now at some of the services that you could tap into with an ENVIRONMENT. The EN — we call them services and supports. And they're really critical in your pathway to return to work or finding work. They're designed to help you with these five key areas. First, identifying your work goals. Do you have a self-employment work goal? If so, well, that's gonna be a pathway, which is gonna require a bit of a business plan, as we've mentioned, and they'll help you go through that process. They're gonna assist with writing and reviewing a résumé, whether that is for kind of the self-employment or, potentially more importantly, for the independent consultant or freelancer approach. Preparing for interviews, of course, in a self-employment model might be less important, but it still could help you prepare to answer questions about why are you going down this path, what is your business plan objective, and, importantly, how can you convey your value proposition of your business to others? And the employment team at the EN can do that. Talking about reasonable accommodation and, importantly, helping you receive benefits counseling as you design your self-employment path, either through the EN directly or a referral to a benefits counselor to talk about those Work Incentives in more detail. So, in short, the ENs are available to help you succeed step by step. And if you're interested, that's one option. 

And of course, there's also the State Vocational Rehabilitation agency option, too. With that, a State VR agency provides a wide variety of services to also help people with disabilities return to work or enter new lines of work or enter the workforce, of course, for the first time. So, the State VR agency can also offer benefits counseling and sometimes has that embedded with the VR agency or their purchased provider. A community rehabilitation provider might have benefits counseling on staff. In these cases, you can tap into the VR for more traditional vocational rehabilitation. That could be a longer term. That means more like helping people with disabilities learn new ways to work or adapt tasks to fit needs. So, that could be a longer-term process, and for some of you, that might be a great match. Think about that as like, "Well, I used to do one thing, and now I need retraining," or, "I used to do a task a certain way, like use a computer, but now I lost my hands and I have to figure out how to use the computer in a new way with some new assistive technology." Vocational rehabilitation is fantastic for that. They also provide training and education to help you obtain your goals. That could be more robust. Like, maybe you need an associate's degree or a certification in order to access a certain type of employment. VR can help in that case, where an EN is less likely to be positioned to do something like that. So, thinking about building skills training, education, voc rehab, and also boosting confidence. All of that is available through the State VR agency, as well. And I have a slide here that kind of reinforces some of these items. You know, I'll call out — it is for more significant services. It is that intensive training, education, and rehabilitation. And they could do career counseling and job placement assistance. So, that might allow you to transition into a job, but in some cases, you might want to talk to a VR and to an EN. You know, the key there is, if you're working with a VR and you are a Ticket to Work participant, then they could help you, and then you would close your case with them, and then your ticket could be assigned over to an Employment Network, potentially for ongoing job-retention services. So, the two can partner. So, you might be eligible for both, and we would encourage you to explore what both have to offer for sure. How can these service providers or your employment team help specifically with your self-employment goals is what this all leads to. And in this area, we'd like you to think about how ENs and VRs can help with the things that we've been talking about, help writing your business plan, identifying funding sources. You know, if you're working with a community-based organization, an EN or a VR, they're gonna know that there might be a grant opportunity for a small business start-up, and they could tell you how to connect with that community grant organization. They, of course, have relationships with businesses in their community. That's the nature of their work. They liaison with businesses and other employment providers, so they could find you a mentor, as well, maybe somebody that has gone before or somebody that cares to give back to the community. They also have the ability to access that training or certification, as we talked about, which might be needed in order to start your business, and, of course, helping you understand the Work Incentives like the PASS and the PESS and the business expenses along with that unpaid help example that we had asked earlier, too, of course. 

And last, identifying reasonable accommodations. If it is self-employment, it's gonna be less about, "How do you ask for reasonable accommodation?" It's gonna be more about, "Well, these are the types of activities or tasks that I have to do in the daily business, that of my startup or of my freelancing work." And they're gonna be able to explore what types of reasonable accommodations will help you be successful with those tasks. So, this is a good list of why you should, if you're considering self-employment, contract an EN or a VR. And we have a little qualifier at the end — not all providers offer the same services. And that's of course the case with a lot of things, but in this case, you know, you could do some research about which providers seem like the right thing and then see if they have the services and supports that match your needs. So, a couple different options there. 

And when you go to do that research, of course this is where, you know, Ray was saying how to get started. We want to encourage you to contact us to find the service provider that is the right match. And in this case, we have a couple options. The first one listed here is that Ticket to Work Help Line that Ray mentioned earlier, and you can reach out to the agents at the Ticket to Work Help Line by calling 1-866-968-7842. Or we have a TTY line for individuals who are deaf, hard of hearing, or have speech-related disabilities. The TTY line is 1-866-833-2967. By calling the Help Line, you can request a list of service providers. You can talk to them about, "I'm in this community, and I'm interested in self-employment or traditional," depending on what your personal goals are, "and I'm looking for a list of providers. I've heard about ENs. I want a list of those. And I also want to know about my VR options." And talk to the beneficiary support specialists at the Help Line. They'll help generate that list and get it to you. Then you could do some research. You could go to those service provider websites and look at what they offer. You can call them up or e-mail them and get some information that helps you decide, "Well, what's the right one for me?" You can also — The second option here is going to the Choose Work Find Help page. And that — You don't have to make a phone call. You can go directly online and search potentially by your zip code if you care to have a provider that's more community-based, someone in your backyard you could go see, you know, face-to-face. Or, if you don't care about that, you can look for a regional or national EN. You can check by the service types that are available. If you prefer to identify a disability type, you can. You can identify a specific language that they would speak if that's your preference. And last, you can put in your provider type — EN, a workforce EN, a VR, or this last item is there, too, a PABSS, Protection and Advocacy organization designed for beneficiaries of Social Security. That's what PABSS talks about. And as Ray says, that's the legal wing of the program. So, if you ever have any legal issues, you could reach out to the PABSS. Through the Find Help page is how you find them. If you want to go to that Choose Work web page, it's at number 18 in the Web Links pod, and you can choose. So, as we like to say, it doesn't matter how you start. If you're gonna choose to start on a path to self-employment, we encourage you to reach out to the Ticket to Work Help Line or go to the Find Help page to find a service provider of your choosing. And with that, it looks like we're back to our second Q&A, and I would love to have Ray rejoin me. 

Ray >> Alright, Derek, thank you again for sharing a ton of information that people are going to have to consider if they're gonna begin their journey to self-employment. We do have a bunch of questions for you. And the ENs got a lot of attention when you were talking about it. "So how can an Employment Network help me start a business?" 

Derek >> This is Derek. Yeah, thanks for the question. And it's really pointed there. So, I was talking around it a little bit, but I'll try to get a little bit more specific. You know, in the Ticket to Work Program, an Employment Network will work with you. You know, if you choose that Employment Network for your provider and they say, "Yeah, we're a good match," they'll do an intake, but then there's an opportunity to create something called an Individualized Work Plan. This is what your short- and mid-range and long-term goals are and then the services and supports that you two — the EN and you — will agree upon that they're gonna provide to you. It's a bit of a contract between you and the EN, like, "Here's our goal, and if we can help you go through this path from short- to mid-term to long-term goals, it should reflect a bit of the entrepreneurial vision that you have for self-employment." So, an Individualized Work Plan — they'll ask you questions about your self-employment goals, like we did in this webinar. And so I think that's the very first thing they'll do. By filling out that plan — we call it an IWP — they're gonna help you think through your self-employment or your launch goals. You know, if you're gonna launch a business and run it, that will help you turn from startup to financial independence, which means full-time work, receiving income, in a recurring manner that allows you to have financial independence. So, I think that's key, number one. I think there's some other areas, like the business plan itself and navigating the Work Incentives or referring you to an appropriate benefits counselor. That's certainly something else that they're well-positioned to do. And then they also have the ability to walk through, kind of, elements of the business plan. Some may do this better than others, but they could talk to you about, you know, "Well, what is marketing and sales?" and help you kind of think through your marketing and sales plan. Others could talk to you about, "Well, what's your income plan? And what's your financial management kind of outlook? And how is that, you know, being communicated?" And of course, you could do some of that on your own. The EN can help, but you could also go to sba.gov and get some tools there to assist. We talked about reasonable accommodations a little bit. They could help you figure out what reasonable accommodations might be needed to be a freelancer, to own your own business. But those are some of the key areas. And I think if you're — You know, ENs are for job seekers, but they're also powerful partners for entrepreneurs. And I think that's something that we can consider. If you haven't worked with an EN yet and you're considering self-employment, it's definitely worth your time to contact one. 

Ray >> Okay. Thank you, Derek. Another question — it concerns the Ticket Program. "And can that Ticket Program help me get some training to help launch my business?" 

Derek >> This is Derek again. Yes, Ray, we mentioned that a couple times. You know, the Ticket Program can do that. And the training — The question sometimes is highly personalized, and we're not in a space to do that today. But ENs and VRs, as I mentioned, can both help. They can help with skills training, more formal education and certification requirements. But all that's possible. And that's because the program's goal is to support you on your path. And if self-employment is a fully supported option, then we understand, if you haven't been self-employed, there's gonna be learning and education that's needed. And so both the ENs and the VRs can help you do that. 

Ray >> Okay. Thank you. This is my favorite part of the Social Security website, so I have to ask you this question. "How do I find a service provider who specializes in self-employment?" 

Derek >> This is Derek again. Yeah. You know, that's interesting. You know, the Find Help tool that I talked about on choosework.ssa.gov — If you go to choosework.ssa.gov, you'll find an option, Find Help. If you type the whole thing in, it's choosework.ssa.gov/findhelp. That's the directory. And one of the services that's offered is a filter. It includes self-employment. So you can go through there and put in, if you like, a zip code. But I would encourage you to start by putting in self-employment and doing a filter there. And then you're gonna get some ENs that have indicated that they specialize in self-employment. I'd also encourage you to remember, you know, the ENs and the other service providers that are in there — you know, every couple years, we encourage them to update their Find Help entries. But as we see the trends in self-employment happening, it's possible that some ENs do provide self-employment services support and they haven't added it yet. Again, we'll continue encouraging them. But if you like, in the end, it might be worth reaching out and asking them, too, and you could do that through the Ticket to Work Help Line. And I know Ray's gonna mention that telephone number one more time before we wrap up. But I'd encourage you to start — if you like computers and doing online research, use the Find Help tool. There's two different ways of using that. You could use the guided search feature. That allows you to answer questions. Or if you prefer, like I mentioned, go after that self-employment service type. That's called direct search, and you put in exactly what you want. Select "self-employment." You'll get the list. Send them an e-mail or call them and ask a few questions. You're gonna find the right fit for you, and then, you know, they can help you on your self-employment you know, planning process. 

Ray >> Okay, Derek. Can I add one thing to that? The search that's gonna result from doing what Derek just talked about might give you three or four different Employment Networks. And that's a good thing, you know, 'cause you've limited it to four entities who can help you talk about self-employment. The ticket also allows you to call all four of them and compare, contrast services, even the methods of communication. And then you can — You're basically interviewing each one of them to determine who is going to be that perfect fit for you. Alright, we have another one, Derek. "I've never had a job. Can the Ticket to Work Program help me?" 

Derek >> This is Derek. "Yes" is the answer. And, you know, somebody might be attending this today that's thinking about self-employment or more just, you know, gathering information about any kind of employment. And if you are receiving SSDI or SSI and have never worked, we encourage you to explore using the Ticket Program to help you find your first job. You could try something with the Work Incentives and the services and supports, which would be part-time work, to just test your capacity to work. The long-term objective of the program is full-time employment, but if you haven't worked before and you're unsure, that's what the Trial Work Period can be all about. It's just testing, "Can I work?" And as you do that, you can have the Ticket Program, including an Employment Network, supporting you along the way. It's really a program that's designed for someone just like you who needs a little bit of confidence and support to try, and we encourage that. There's other people that are here today that, you know, of course, have worked before, and, you know, that's a different story. But for you, if you haven't had a job, please know that the program is definitely designed for you, too. 

Ray >> Okay. Thank you, Derek. I think we have time for one more. "Can I switch providers if I find one that better supports self-employment?" 

Derek >> This is Derek. Yeah, that's a really good question because we're talking about finding those that support self-employment. Really, I mean, the choice in service provider selection is yours. We want you to find and assign your ticket to an EN that you would have success with. But if you're not finding success, you are able to unassign your ticket from one EN and reassign it to another EN to fit your employment goals, including self-employment goals. So the answer there is "yes." 

Ray >> Thank you, Derek. We're gonna get back into our close-out sessions. I just want to talk to you about how to get started. The good news is there's no wrong door here. We've got lots of places that you can contact. The primary one for some basic information, without any obligation on your part, is to call the Ticket to Work Help Line. That number again is 1-866-968-7842, and for TTY users, 1-866-833-2967. You can visit our website at choosework.ssa.gov. And, again, my favorite, Find Help tool, choosework.ssa.gov/findhelp. I know we've had a couple of people who are wondering how this is applying to them because they really weren't interested in self-employment. You'll be able to attend another session in September. There is one open for registration now, and it's a general Work Incentive session. Okay, and in September — here is that slide — join us for the next webinar at WISE, "Debunking the Three Biggest Myths about Disability Benefits and Work." It's gonna be on September 17 from 3:00 p.m. to 4:30 p.m. Eastern Time. You can register online or call 1-866-968-7842, or for TTY users, 1-866-833-2967. And that's gonna do it for us today. Thank you, Derek, for being with us. Thank you, Jayme, for getting us all started. And we hope to see you at another WISE in the future. Take care, everyone.