WISE Ticket to Work Webinar
Ticket to Work and the Path to Employment
March 24, 2021

Speakers: Sarah Hyland (Moderator), Ray Cebula (Presenter)

SARAH>> Good afternoon, and welcome to today’s Ticket to Work webinar, Ticket to Work and the Path to Employment. My name is Sarah Hyland, and I am a member of the Ticket to Work team, and I will be your moderator for today’s webinar. 

We are so glad you are able to take time to spend with us today to learn about Social Security’s Ticket to Work Program and how it can help you as you start on the path to financial independence through work.

Each of us has our own path to follow, and we hope that you find some information today that will assist you in moving forward on your path to employment and financial independence. Let’s get started by going over some of the functions of the webinar platform so you can interact and get the most out of today’s webinar.

First, you can manage your audio by using the Audio option at the top of your screen. The Audio option is an icon that looks like a microphone or telephone.

All attendees will be muted throughout today’s webinar. Thus, when presented with options to join in the audio conference, choose Listen Only, which appears at the bottom right in the Audio menu. Clicking Listen Only allows the sound to be broadcast through your computer speakers or your headphones. Please make sure your speakers are turned on and your headphones are plugged in. 

If you are unable to connect to the audio with your computer or prefer to listen to the webinar by phone, please dial 1-800-832-0736 and enter Access Code 4189148#.

Next, we will share some information about webinar accessibility.

You may have noticed that the Adobe Connect platform has made some updates since the last time we were together. These updates will not affect today’s webinar, but if you experience any technical difficulties, please use the Q&A pod to send us a message or you can email us at the Ticket to Work email address, which is webinars@choosework.ssa.gov. 

On the Adobe Connect platform, you will notice that on your screen there are four different boxes. These boxes are called pods. We have the Presentation pod where the slides appear. Below that is the Closed Captioning pod. In the top right-hand corner, you will see the Q&A pod. And below the Q&A pod is the Weblinks pod. We will talk about these pods in a bit more detail in a few moments.

If you need assistance navigating Adobe Connect, an accessibility user guide with a list of controls is available at http://bits.ly/adobe-accessibility. This link is also available in the Weblinks pod at the bottom right-hand corner of your screen. And it will be titled Adobe Accessibility User Guide. 

Real-time captioning is available and is displayed in the Captioning pod, which is the box that appears below the slide that is on your screen right now. The Captioning link can be found in the Weblinks pod under the title Closed Captioning.

If you are fluent in ASL and would like support for today’s webinar, follow the link below that provides instructions to connect with an interpreter through the Federal Communications Commission, FCC, Video Relay Service, VRS. The ASL User Guide can also be found in the Weblinks pod under the title ASL User Guide.

We are here today to answer any questions that you may have on the Ticket to Work Program. Please send your questions to us at any time throughout the webinar by typing them into the Q&A pod. We will direct the questions to our speaker during the Q&A portions of our webinar. And we will be addressing questions at two different points throughout today’s presentation. Please go ahead and send in those questions, and we will do our best to answer as many of them as we possibly can. 

If you are listening by phone or you are not logged in to the webinar, you may ask questions by sending an email to the Ticket to Work email address, which is webinars@choosework.ssa.gov. 

Another resource available that we think you will find extremely helpful in connecting to different resources mentioned today is the Weblinks pod. Again, you will find that at the bottom right-hand side of your screen. This pod lists all of the links and resources presented during today’s webinar. To access any of these resources, simply highlight the topic that you are interested in and would like to connect to, and then select Browse To button at the bottom of the pod. You will then be taken to the website requested.

If you are listening by phone and not logged in to the webinar, or you don’t have access to the Weblinks pod, you can email the Ticket to Work email address, webinars@choosework.ssa.gov, or you can always reference the confirmation email that you received for today’s webinar for a list of available resources.

Also, please note that SSA cannot guaranty, and is not responsible for, the accessibility of external websites.

Today’s webinar is being recorded, and a copy of it will be available within two weeks on the Choose Work website, which can be accessed at http://bits.ly/WISE_ondemand. This can be found in the Weblinks pod under WISE Webinar Archives.

We hope everyone has a great experience on the webinar today. If you run into any technical difficulties, please use the Q&A pod to send us a message. Or you can send an email to webinars@choosework.ssa.gov. 

As I mentioned earlier, my name is Sarah Hyland, and I am a member of the Ticket to Work team. I’m very excited to be here with you today as your moderator. 

We are also delighted to have Ray Cebula with us today to share his knowledge of the Ticket to Work Program. Ray received his law degree from the University of New Hampshire’s Franklin Pierce School of Law. He spent 23 years providing legal services to individuals with disabilities in their interactions with Social Security. He became part of Cornell University’s Work Incentive Support Center in 2000, and in 2005, he joined the staff of Cornell’s Yang Tan Institute on Employment and Disability where he now serves as the Program Director of YTI Online, which is Cornell’s Work Incentive practitioner credentialing program.

And thank you again for joining us today. We are going to discuss how Social Security’s Ticket Program can help you and answer your questions relating to Social Security’s Ticket Program. Ticket Program service providers. And benefits counseling and the path to work.

And with that, it is my pleasure to introduce Ray Cebula to start us off with the Ticket to Work Program and support on your journey to work and much more. Thank you so much, Ray.

RAY>> Thank you, Sarah. And welcome, everybody.

I’m going to talk a lot about the Ticket to Work Program and supporting folks on their journey to work. But before we do that, I have one disclaimer for today’s session. We are not going to take any questions about Social Security and the Corona virus. But I am going to give you a website that you can access to get updates. And it’s updated quite regularly by Social Security. That website is https://www.ssa.gov/coronavirus/. And you’ll get most of what you need on that website.

So, today we’re going to be focusing on a journey to work. And we do like to call it a journey to work because everybody takes a journey to work. All of it’s different, but all vitally important.

Before we start off I want to give you a little background about the two programs we’re talking about. Social Security administers two disability programs. One is known as SSDI, Social Security Disability Insurance. It’s an insurance program. As you have worked and paid FICA taxes, you have been paying for insurance should you need it when a disability is incurred. The same tax dollars that are being put into the Social Security Trust Fund so that you are insured for retirement.

Using the same definition of disability as SSDI, we also have the Supplemental Security Income program. SSI. This is a needs-based program provided to workers that might not have enough credits paid into the SSDI system or to people who have not had the opportunity to work yet and pay into the Social Security system.

Two very different programs, again using the same definition of disability, and both amenable to a journey to work using some of the same work incentives, but also having work incentives that are individual to each program. 

Very important that when you do speak with a benefits planner or somebody at Social Security, that you are aware of what type of benefit you have. Because, again, as I said, same journey, different work incentives. And we need to know what we are talking about before we start telling you how work incentives will help you along the way.

Who can make this choice? You know, the choice is up to everybody who’s listening. Only you can make the decision that’s right for you. And that is to work, to work part time, or not to work. It all depends on your individual situation. So, what we’re here to do today is to help give you some considerations that you need to consider when you’re making that decision.

Why choose work? There are lots of reasons to choose work. Earning a living through employment may not be something that everybody can do, but it might be right for you. Once people understand the free services, the supports that are available to them through the Social Security programs, they often find that the rewards and benefits, which include more money, far outweigh the risks of losing benefits. And as a simple example, the mathematics involved with the SSI program clearly will lead everybody who tries work with more money.

There are also healthcare protections that are going to allow you to keep your healthcare in tact while you are working. 

So there’s a lot of great stuff here, you know. And all the good stuff that about, you know, besides the pay check when you’re working. You know, there’s a lot of good things. I have three dogs because I work. You know, it takes a job to pay for their vet care. All that stuff would not have happened if I wasn’t able to work or choose not to. And I come from a belief that everybody has something they can sell, we just have to find the right place for them to do that.

The Ticket to Work Program started in 1999. It was President Clinton’s last bill that he signed into law. So, it really took off in 2000. And we’re looking at – we’re in our twenty-first year of this program. It’s free, and it’s voluntary. You don’t have to participate. But if you are choosing to go to work, it might be to your benefit to do that.

What we can get you, it provides clear career development for people who are ages 16 through 64 who receive a cash benefit from Social Security based on disability and want to work. Again, it’s free and voluntary. So, you need to make the decision as to whether you’re going to participate or not.

Free employment services. Free services to help you get to work. What are some of those? The first question if you’re deciding if work is right for you, can be the most difficult question on this journey. What kind of job do you want? What kind of job are you able to do? What types of accommodations might you need to do a job? What’s the capacity for work? Can you work full time? Can you work part time?

Then we move into preparing for that job. Do you need education or training? It could be technical training. It could be, you know, a two-year degree that will prepare you for work.

How do you find a job? Well, we have people we’ll talk about in a few minutes who can help you do that. Who can point to where the jobs are in your community.

When you’re finding the job, you also need a resumé. You may also need some interview practise. We can do that. That’s going to get you a job offer, we hope. And job offer that you’ll accept. 

And we’re still not done yet. Because we don’t leave you at your employer’s door and say congratulations, bye-bye. What we do is stay with you to provide on-the-job supports that you may need to get used to this new life. To get used to the job. To figure out what types of accommodations you may need to do that job so that you can succeed at work.

So, we have prep help all the way through on-the-job help that’s available to everybody who can participate, aged 18 through 64.

The Ticket to Work Help Line is a great place to start if you want to call and find out what work incentives might be available for you as an SSI recipient, or what might be available to you as an SSDI recipient. You can talk to somebody at the Ticket to Work Help Line. They’re open Monday through Friday, 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. Eastern time. And I’m going to give you the phone numbers. 866-968-7842. And for TTY users, 866-833-2967. And they’ll give you a little primer as to how this whole process works and get you in contact with somebody in your area so you can start doing some real homework to get to work.

So, who are these people who are providing you with services? I can tell you that most of us are very sincere in our desire to help you find work and keep work. And it doesn’t matter which of these agencies you approach first. There’s a door there that will open the Ticket to Work for you.

You’ll have a variety of providers including employment networks, workforce employment networks. Used to be called the One-Stop Centers, American Job Centers. They can help you. That’s a great place to start exploring the world of work, you know, with no strings attached before you even participate in the Ticket.

State vocational rehabilitation agencies. Every state has at least one. Many states have a separate agency for vision – visually-impaired or blind people. You want to make sure you’re calling the right agency. But, again, if you call the wrong one, you’ll get the phone number for the right one.

Work incentive planning and assistance projects. These folks are there to specifically help you. If you want to work ten hours a work, if you want to work 20 hours a week, and your salary will be $10.00 an hour, how will that affect your benefits? Not only Social Security benefits, but your healthcare. And your SNAP benefits. And your housing benefits. And your heating assistance. Because our job is to make sure that work pays and that you have enough to make sure all of your bills are paid and, ideally, enough to go to the movies on Friday night and go out for pizza. We want this to be to your benefit.

Protection and advocacy for beneficiaries of Social Security. You know, these are protection and advocacy agencies in each state. If you look for the Client Assistance Project, which you may be familiar with, they are generally part of the protection and advocacy agency. And these are – tend to be lawyers and advocates, and they’re there, funded by Social Security, to provide you with disability-related employment issues. So that if you do get asked an inappropriate question during an interview, or if you do request an accommodation and the employer says no, these people can provide you with advocacy services. And legal services if that’s necessary.

So let’s talk about the employment networks. There are about a thousand of them across the country, and they are all doing a really great job. They are doing a great job. Including the workforce, that one-stop center, American Jobs Center, that you’re already familiar with, they can provide you services as well. And again, they’re free to you. You know, there’s a three-way contract here. There’s you at the top of the pyramid. There’s an employment network at one side of the pyramid base. And then Social Security at the other base of the pyramid. You need to work successfully toward your goal that’s established with an employment network. And Social Security will then pay the employment network for providing those services. And this is a great opportunity for anybody who is looking for a job. And if you’re on benefits, all of these services are free to you.

They’re going to provide you with, what type of job do you want to do? You know. We can give you some suggestions as to what you might want to do. We can give you suggestions for a starter job that could turn into a career, you know, so that we know that you’re on a trajectory to be completely financially independent. That’s our desire for everybody. Again, I told you they know the job markets in the areas that they serve. They can point. They can provide you with interview practise. They can help you write that resumé. 

Some employment networks have benefits planners involved so it becomes one-stop shopping. But you can also get the projection as to how things are going to happen to your benefits, and when they’re going to happen, and what your income looks like when those events take place. So, employment networks are wonderful. Again, they are paid by Social Security based upon your making progress in the plan that you’ve built with the employment network to go to work.

Again, what are your work goals? How many hours a week are you able to work? 

Preparation of a resumé. You know, I’m in a position now where I haven’t done a resumé in 30 years. Seriously. And I need help if I am to write a new one at this point because they don’t look like they did 30 years ago.

Preparing for interviews. You know, when your prospective employer finishes their questions and they say, do you have any questions for us? You’d better have a few. Somebody who can help you prepare for an interview can make sure you have those questions so that you can ask questions about that specific job, that specific employer. It certainly shows that you’ve done a little bit of research, even though you might have had help to do that research, and know what these jobs that are – this particular employer is offering.

Requesting reasonable accommodations. That can be tough because if you’re going to request an accommodation, you have to reveal your disability. Don’t have to reveal anything about your status as a beneficiary of Social Security, but you need to tell the employer you’re disabled. Why you need this accommodation. What is it going to produce for the employer? And ideally, how much it’s going to cost. It shouldn’t cost a lot. Most employers tend to be afraid of reasonable accommodations because they think it’s going to be a lot of money. The average accommodation is less than $500.00. But how do you ask for that? If you’ve gone through an interview process and gotten a job and made no mention of your medical condition, how do you open that conversation with your boss? That’s what employment networks can help you do.

And benefits counseling. I mentioned that some, a lot actually, have counselors in their offices. That state VR agency, we’re looking at vocational rehabilitation and training and education. Now, everybody who receives a disability benefit from Social Security is a priority, and you move right to the front of the line. If you are looking for a two-year degree, a four-year degree, this is the place where you’re liable to end up because they are the biggest player in this whole arena. They’re big state agencies that have a lot of federal funding to provide whatever you need to get you to work. And vocational rehabilitation. There are many people who become disabled and may be able to return to their old job. It’s just a matter of learning and getting the equipment that’s necessary for you to do the job differently. You’re still going to be providing the same valuable services you were to your employer, but just a little differently. So, that’s what the state agency is all about.

Partnership Plus, you know, is one of the exciting things. We all thought this was the goal of the Ticket to Work, and when it finally came out of the shadows, everybody was jumping for joy. This allows you to get your vocational rehabilitation agency and your EN to partner up. The state VR agency will put your Ticket in use. Not assigned, but in use. Will provide you with the education, the vocational rehabilitation that you need. And then you’ll be able to take your Ticket to an employment network, and assign it to them, build the plan to find the job and to be able to get supports on the job. It is truly the best program. It really, really is. And it’s very effective if it’s used appropriately.

You know, we’re getting you everything you need. Ninety days after you begin working, and your VR case is closed, some of us wondered, does that give you enough time on the job to become a worker with a disability? You know. Become a real worker. And we didn’t think three months was long enough. But if you then can assign that Ticket to your employment network, and stay on the job for another six or nine months, then I think you’re no longer a beneficiary with a disability. You are a worker with a disability. And you’re on your way to financial independence. So, this Partnership Plus stuff is really, really good news for everybody.

Now the work incentive planning and assistance projects, they are – it’s the WIPA program. They are staffed by people called CWICs. The Community Work Incentive Coordinators. They are the people that provide free benefits counseling. They’re going to look at all of your benefits, and they’re going to tell you, if you earn $100.00 a week, this is what’s going to happen to your benefits. And the goal is to ensure that you’re working enough to replace those benefits and still be able to go out on Friday night. You know, I mean, that’s what we do, right? We work all week, and we go out on Friday night and have dinner and go to a movie. Yeah. Then we start getting ready to do it all over again.

But we’re going to talk about all of your benefits, not just Social Security benefits.

The Social Security work incentives are incredibly important. Some of these incentives are going to take your gross earnings and reduce what Social Security counts to what we call countable income. And you want to take advantage of those things because what can that do? If you’re not quite ready to cut the strings yet, we can use these work incentives to allow you to work a little bit longer. To keep you on benefits. To keep some of those benefits, maybe not all, but some of them, intact so that you have that safety net along with all of the other safety nets that Social Security provides. You can get there at your own comfort level.

Benefits of employment. Dispelling the myths. I already talked to you about my three pups. You know, I have a house. I have a car. You know, I ended up getting married because I worked. So, there are lots of benefits to work that are outside of just the pay check. And dispelling the myths. You know, we all know that the street speaks very loudly. Yeah. The street doesn’t necessarily know the truth. The street is screaming to you, if you go to work, you will lose benefits. And the fact is that that’s the furthest thing from the truth. So, come in, talk to a benefits planner, and learn what the truth is. And how the truth can benefit you.

The benefits planners are in contact or are housed in employment networks. So, there’s a direct route to other services that can be provided. Some of these benefits planners are housed in stated vocational rehabilitation agencies. So, all of these people are connected. They all know who everybody else is, and we can help you navigate through the various services that you need.

Who do WIPAs serve? Right now, they serve people who are working or are self-employed, who have a job offer pending, or who have actively been seeking work. They’ve had a job interview in the last 30 days or have one coming up in the next two weeks. There’s a special group, a group I like to work with a lot, transition-age youth, age 14 through 25. Even if you’re in the very early phases of taking that first paid work experience during summer break, that’s a great group of folks to work with.

That’s what the CWICs cover. I just need to tell you that there are other non-Social Security-funded benefits planners that can help you if you’re just considering work and are above the age of 25. So you know there’s help out there regardless of your situation.

Protection and advocacy services. That was the last job I had before being a part of – before joining Cornell’s team. Free legal services to people who receive a disability benefit from Social Security and have employment-related issues. It’s there for your protection. Workers do have rights in the United States, and the legal support or advocacy is available to you at no charge through the PABSS office. 

Do you have to resolve an employment-related concern, like asking for that accommodation? This is a place where you can learn how to ask. This is the place that can get information really quickly as to what the accommodations are that you may need if you’re not sure and how much they cost. So, this is a great place to visit. If, in fact, you’ve already made these requests and are denied, well, the PABSS program can provide you with a paralegal or an attorney to give your boss and call and say, what do you mean you denied this service? And the discussion could go any way it needs to go, but there’s a resolution that’s possible for you.

Again, protecting your rights as a worker. There are a lot of rights workers have in this country. Requesting reasonable accommodations in the workplace? What about if you’re in state VR and they’re paying for your college education? And that’s not working out so well because that person who takes notes for you kind of shows up sometime and kind of doesn’t. You know, what if you’re in the training course to become a plumber? What if you’re in a licensing court to – program to become an electrician? If they’re not made accessible to you, and fully accessible to you, your rights are being violated. PABSS can help. And any other disability-based legal issue that presents a barrier to employment. That’s a big window. So there’s a lot of help out there for you.

And how do you find a service provider? It’s really easy. Social Security has a really good website. And the Choose Work website, at choosework.ssa.gov/findhelp, is a website I probably use a dozen times a week. Because if somebody were to call me and say, where do I find a benefits planner, how do I get into a PABSS office, I don’t know where they are in Washington state. I don’t know where they are in Florida. But by the time I explain to you that I don’t know where they are, I could have already gotten on the website and found them for you.

You can search by your zip code, and it will provide all of the providers to you that we just discussed.

What about finding just a benefits planner? Well, you just need to check that box off and put in your zip code.

What about your disability type? You know, the employment networks out there, they’re great people. Some of them work solely with people who have mental impairments. So, if I have a physical impairment, maybe that’s not the right place for me to look. I can put in my type of impairment and get the employment networks that work with people who are like me.

Languages spoken. Do you need services in Spanish? In Vietnamese? Well, you can find out if there are employment networks, VR, WIPA, PABSS, or the workforce places that are going to be able to provide you with services in the language you prefer. 

Or you can call the Ticket to Work Help Line. I gave you those numbers earlier. They’re an easy fix. They’ll get you all the information and phone numbers you need, from Monday through Friday, 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. Eastern Time.

All right, Sarah. Looks like we’re up for the first round of questions.

SARAH>> All right. Thank you, Ray, and thanks for kicking us off with the Ticket to Work Program. Like Ray said, we are going to pause here and take a few moments to address the questions that you have in the audience. And I am going to start with the first question for you, Ray. I have an advanced graduate degree. Is Ticket to Work still a good fit for me?

RAY>> I don’t see why not. You know, I have an advanced graduate degree, too, and if I were to become disabled and needed some rehabilitation work, I would certainly be looking to that Ticket to Work. I would certainly want a benefits planner. Because if I’m going to work with an advanced graduate degree, I’m probably looking at a good-paying job, and I want to know what’s going to happen to my healthcare because maybe my employer’s – prospective employer’s – plan doesn’t meet all of my medical needs. I – I would want to have access to a PABSS attorney if that were necessary. So, I think that Ticket to Work is a good thing for everybody. 

You know, it also provides some other protections. You know, there are those medical reviews that Social Security does, the Continuing Disability Reviews, to determine, you know, are you still disabled? You know, science changes. Medicine changes. They - Social Security will not do those reviews if you’re using a Ticket. Effectively, using a CDR to terminate you while you’re looking for work and making progress to finding a job is pulling the rug out from under you. So, Social Security will suspend those reviews so you can focus on employment rather than on your disability status. 

And so I think it – it doesn’t matter your education level. I think it’s – it’s okay.

SARAH>> All right. Thank you so much, Ray. The next question I have from the audience is, can you explain how an overpayment occurs? Does it only happen if you are working and receiving benefits?

RAY>> No, there are – there are several ways that overpayments occur. You know, if you’re working and receiving benefits, and don’t report to Social Security that you’re earning – you’re earning money, then you’re in a position where the IRS will eventually send Social Security information about your earnings. Unfortunately, that might be a year or two from now. And you could be saddled with an overpayment because you didn’t report that you were working.

So, they can happen as somebody is going to work. I like to discuss that with people that I work with as a possibility, and a very real possibility, so that that overpayment notice doesn’t stop work. Because it shouldn’t. There are things that can be done to either correct an overpayment. If you didn’t report that you were working, Social Security has no idea that you should be using work incentives. And some of those work incentives also depend on your report.

So, they can be reduced. They can be eliminated. And there’s also potential that you might not have to pay it back. Those are long processes that depend exactly on your circumstances. But they happen in a lot of different ways. You know, if I’m on SSI, and I get married to another SSI recipient, we basically end up with one-and-a-half checks rather than two. If I don’t tell Social Security I got married, we have an overpayment. Since we got married until the time Social Security finds out about it.

So, there are lots of ways that they can happen, not just dependent upon work. Work just makes them more possible. It should not stop anybody from working. And just know that there are things that can be done. And the team that you have working for you is going to do everything they can to make sure that you stay at work.

SARAH>> All right. Thank you, Ray, for all of those examples of overpayment situations and possibilities.

I have another question for you from the audience. I am disabled and I find my service provider is having trouble to adequately address my disability needs. How do you recommend I help my EN understand my needs?

RAY>> You know, that – that’s – that’s a really excellent question. And I don’t think we’ve ever had that before. You know, I think the first thing you need to do is shop for an EN. And I do mean shop. You can talk to as many as you can. And see what experience they have working with people who have the same disability. You know, if they don’t have any, maybe it’s not the right EN. Maybe you need to look at a second one. You know, you can look at as many as you want. If you’re already working with somebody and they’re not getting it for some reason, then you do have the right to take your Ticket and go to somebody else, but you could reach out to the protection and advocacy agency to, well, you can’t reach out to your EN, you’ve already got one. But the protection and advocacy agency is a great place to be able to get information about how your disability will interfere with your ability to do the work. And what kind of accommodations you may need. What kind of durable medical equipment might you need to bring you on the same level with other workers without disabilities. Yeah. And if the employment network still isn’t getting it after you collect information, then I think it might be time to find another network to work with.

SARAH>> All right. Thanks, Ray. I have another question for you from the audience. Will an EN help me find a part-time job that will allow me to continue receiving benefits or are they focused solely on full-time employment?

RAY>> You know, the ENs, as I said, it’s that three-way contract. Social Security, the EN, and the worker. You know, the EN is providing you with services. Social Security will then pay for the services provided. You have to keep up with the plan. We call it timely progress. You have to be making timely progress.

The EN will begin to get paid when you’re working part time. In order for the EN to get all of the money they’re entitled to, you would be working until you’re no longer receiving benefits. Will an EN help you find a part-time job? I think, yeah. I think they will, you know, because the part-time work also, as I said, can be – can result in reimbursement for services provided from Social Security. It’s not anybody’s wish that you stop at part-time work, but again, what’s your capacity to work? If that part-time work is meeting your capacity to work, you’re a success story. You’ve done everything you can. An EN can get paid some of the money that they would be entitled to. So I think there are ENs out there, at least from the reports that I read all the time, there are some ENs out there who do that. But you need to understand the intent is that you work your way off of benefits. That may not take full-time work. But the goal is hopefully you will no longer need to rely on Social Security and all of the other public benefits.

So, yes, but it depends on the EN.

SARAH>> Okay. Thank you, Ray. The next question I have for you is, if I am able to find a job on my own, would participating in the Ticket Program still benefit me?

RAY>> If you’ve found a job on your own and you’re able to do that job without on-the-job supports, you know, without reasonable accommodations, then there’s probably not a whole lot of need for the Ticket. But if you are on the job and find that, wait a minute, I do need to sit down and stand up, to sit down and stand up, but everybody else is just standing up, how am I going to approach my boss and explain this to him? Well, maybe then you would want to reach out to an employment network, or a benefits planner, or the PABSS agencies to find out how to broach that questions. The Ticket to Work that you have allows you to access all of these services. The question is which services do you really need? If you just need to talk to somebody about, how do I talk to my boss about a reasonable accommodation, then you might just use your Ticket to get PABSS services. If you need on-the-job supports while you’re working, you might just need an employment network. I think in either case, you need a benefits planner. So, I think there are lots of ways these Tickets can be used even if you do find your own job.

SARAH>> All right, Ray. Next question I have for you from the audience is, what happens if you start work but find that you cannot continue due to your disability?

RAY>> You know, the good thing is if you do start working and your work effort is stopped because of your disability or drops below that magic substantial gainful activity level that changes every – you know, that changes every year, what we can do is we have to assume that you’ve worked enough and your benefits have been terminated. You know, what we can then do is request what’s called expedited reinstatement. And expedited reinstatement is a real quick way back onto benefits. I know there are people out there who have waited a couple of years to get their benefits. But this is a matter of a couple of months. And I’m going to use today’s date. It’s March 24, so that if you were to request expedited reinstatement, and you can show that it was disability that caused your work to reduce or stop, you would likely get a benefit on May 1. And you’ll get six months’ worth of benefits while Social Security is making that decision. The overwhelming majority of people who request the EXR are awarded EXR. Half of the people who are not awarded EXR already found another job. So, it’s a great, easy way back in with avoiding a new application.

Some of you out there may have disabilities such as paralysis, blindness, things that automatically are going to allow you to get benefits. You still have the option to file a new application as well. And if you have one of those disabilities that’s in that list, you will get benefits right away. And it’s very possible that after a short time, or immediately in some cases, all of the work incentives become available to you again.

So, there is – you have to really understand this. There is a safety net that will protect you after you were terminated because you worked. There aren’t safety nets like that in any other public benefits agency. You’re either on or you’re off. You either apply again or you don’t get it. Social Security is watching out for you for five years after you’ve been terminated. That’s an exception work incentive.

SARAH>> All right, Ray. I have one more question for you before we move on with more information. Does the Ticket to Work Program provide assistance with finding a work-from-home job?

RAY>> Oh, sure. You know, I mean I think that one of the benefits, if there’s a benefit to a pandemic, is that everybody now understands that almost everybody can work from home. I’ve worked from home for 20 years, so it’s not new to me, it’s not new to my employer. Lots of employers wondered, you know, my employers wondered, can tech support work from home? Can administrative assistants work from home? Well, now they’re realizing that they can. And if some of those people request to work at home, they’re going to have to think about this long and hard before they say no. There – there are an amazing number of jobs that are work-at-home jobs. And if that’s what you require, if that’s what you prefer, then there are employment networks who can do that. We actually worked with an employment network about six months ago, and her focus was working at home. So, this is a real thing now, and it’s not going anywhere quick.

SARAH>> All right, Ray. Thank you for the thorough answers to the questions sent in by our participants. We do definitely have more questions for you which we will address later in the webinar. But we’re going to stop and turn things back over to you so you can discuss the benefits counseling and the Path to Work. Thanks again, Ray.

RAY>> Okay. Thank you. 

Benefits counseling and the Path to Work. What is this all about? Benefits counseling, as I said, even in answer to that question, benefits planning pays – plays a role. You know, that Ticket to Work is going to get you benefits planning. It created that Social Security network. All you need to do is tell people that you are a cash recipient. You’re eligible for benefits planning services. So, and I think it’s critical. There are two options here. You go to work and you find out what your income does to your public benefits later. Or you go to work with a plan that already tells you what’s going to happen, when. And if you can’t maintain the work that you’ve maintained, that plan can be amended. It’s not a one-stop shop.

And this is the- the myth, right? Here’s one of those myths. And despite how loudly we all speak, you know, the street continues to have a louder voice than we do. And my friend told me he went to work and lost his benefits. This is going to happen to me, too, if I go to work. True or false. I’m here to tell you that that’s just false, and it’s just plain wrong. You know, there are many, many work incentives. If I started babbling them off, you’d understand there are a dozen or so for SSI recipients. There are a dozen or so for Social Security Disability Insurance recipients. And you can use all of them. You can use as many of them as you possibly can. You know, whatever you have at your disposal on your progression to work. But, you know, to start out, I’m going to use SSI as an example because it’s much more dramatic. If I earn $585.00 a month, Social Security is likely to take the first $20.00 off and the first $65.00 as well. So that leaves me with $500.00.  They then divide by two. So I have $250.00. This is without using any work incentives yet. I’ve earned $585.00. Social Security is only going to look at $250.00, and that will reduce my SSI check. It goes down $250.00. 

That’s not the end of the story, though. In return for giving up $250.00 worth of benefits, you have earned $585.00, so you are better off than you were not working. That’s the way this return to work should work for everybody. And it does work that way with SSDI because there are work incentives that let you earn as much as you can in a month and you have no impact on your benefits whatsoever. 

If you’re connected with a benefits counselor, you can find out all of this and that plan can be given to you. We’re able to project out until you will be terminated. You know, unfortunately, life happens. So what I tell you today is going to happen to you in five years may change. But you can come back, and we’ll talk about how the plan needs to be changed so that you’re aware of exactly what’s going to happen. And exactly, you know, when you’re going to be terminated from benefits. Or exactly when your benefits are going to be reduced. Or exactly when your healthcare might be at risk in ten years. But it’s best to know all of that. And to know the truth. Just don’t listen to the streets. You know, if your friends are telling you, if you’re hearing this on the streets, then by all means just give a benefits planner a call to see if what that planner tells you is different. And if they do tell you it’s different, please choose to believe the benefits planner. They’ve all been trained. They’ve all been – yes, they have technical assistance, you know, that can help them answer questions they may not be able to answer off the top of their heads. These people are going to get you to the truth. The street won’t do that.

Boy, I guess I told you what this says, haven’t I? You know, we talked about what this plan is. You know, what benefits planning is. It’s going to give you a detailed breakdown of where you are now. What your benefits are now. And what work incentives are amenable to each type of benefits that you have. Now, if you’re not working yet, I like to tell people, get a 20-hour-a-week estimate. Get a 25-hour-a-week estimate. And get a full-time estimate. You may not be sure of your capacity to work yet, but if I show you the money, and show you what’s going to happen, there’s encouragement there for you to strive for a situation that provides you with a better lifestyle. And that only happens through work.

Again, these services are free. And they’re through the Ticket to Work Program. You can do that – use that help finder, you know, the Find Help tool in the Weblinks pod. Click on WIPA, put in your zip code, and you’ll get the service – get the agency that provides the service in your area. No obligation to do anything but find out what might happen. But you’ll find out the truth.

As I told you, they’re going to help you with healthcare benefits, which is critically important for everybody because even when you are awarded employer-provided healthcare, does that plan provide you with all of your medical requirements? If not, how can we hold on to Medicare, to Medicaid? There are ways to do this. There are ways to do this. And they’re very cost effective, and they’re very easy programs to get into.

We’re certainly going to look into Social Security benefits, whether they’re SSDI or SSI, and tell you what’s going to happen every step of the way. And if you’re successful, and you’re all of a sudden getting a promotion, and a raise that goes along with that, or just an annual step increase, come on down and we’ll let you know what your benefits will look like with the new money.

Housing assistance. For those people who live in subsidised housing, there are many different types of subsidized housing. If you’re not exactly sure what type of housing you’re in, what we can do is help you figure that out and then look to see what work incentives apply to your housing. There’s one out there that still exists that won’t count your new income for the first year. And that’s a pretty good work incentive. Your rent won’t go up for a year even though you have more money.

And then we have SNAP. Used to be called food stamps. How is earning money going to impact that? If you’re living with $180.00 or $200.00 in food stamps, you are going to need to be able to earn enough to replace what you are losing in food stamps. Very touchy program with earnings. With any kind of income.

That’s my job, is to explain to you, okay, you’re losing $80.00 in food stamps. How many hours do you need to work to replace them? And make sure that work pays. That there’s always more money at the end of the month.

Now, if you can do that on your own, then by all means, you can do it – you can do it for yourself. But my guess is that if I were in this situation, you know, knowing what I know, I would still want somebody else to do it for me because you – you tend to advocate better for other people as opposed to advocating for yourself.

Three tips – three types of service providers can offer assistance to benefits – for benefits planning. The WIPA projects, most certainly. If you don’t meet their priorities, there are other planners out there who can help you do that who’ve also been trained. So, we’re not talking about people who just pick up a pencil and say, I’m going to do this. 

State rehab agencies. Many of them have in-house benefits planners or are training their regular – their regular counselors, their VR counselors, you know, so that they’re – they can have a discussion about work incentives with you but might then refer you to a benefits planner for some hard-core training.

And the employment networks. A growing number, it seems like every month, more ENs have in-house planners. So this can be a one-stop shop. If you don’t want your EN to do planning for you, you’re perfectly free to go to the WIPA program. Or if you don’t want VR in-house people to do it, go to the WIPA program. You know, you can use a combination – any combination of these services that you need to help make this work for you.

Here's another link. The benefits counseling facts sheet in your web pods links. That’s going to tell you more about what benefits counseling is and how it can help. And it’s no different than anybody else who works and has to figure out how that income is going to pay their bills. It’s the same thing. And we all need some of that help at some point. Particularly when we’re starting work. How does this work? If I’m making $25,000.00 a year, where can I live? How much can I afford if I want to buy a new car? This is simply concerning your public benefits. How can you comfortably make the transition from dependence on benefits to financial independence in a way that makes sure you get everything you need along the way? That’s the goal. To make this journey a safe journey for you.

So, let’s see what we’ve got in the Additional Resource section here. Again, it’s your choice. I’m not trying to make this more difficult by explaining all the services that are available to you. Just know that they’re out there, and we can probably get you anything you need if you open one of those doors. 

But you need to know what’s going to happen when you get that first pay check. How is it going to affect your benefits? Because it will. And you are legally obligated to report that earning, that first pay check, to Social Security, to SNAP, to housing. How do you get that job, and how do you keep it? If you have been receiving disability benefits for a long time, and now you’re deciding, I want to try to work, that transition is going to take a little bit longer because there’s been a lot of time living on benefits. And a lot of time not working. So you may need to test your ability to work. Okay, you can do ten hours’ worth of work. If we provide you with some accommodations, and we provide you with on-the-job support, do you think you might be able to do 20? Just making sure. Not pushing you. I can give you a scenario with 20 hours a week, and you may say, I can’t do that, Ray. Well, that’s fine. Let’s back it down to 15. I’m still trying to keep you above the ten, right? So, I’m going to encourage you to do that.

But the Ticket to Work is here to help. And the people who are involved in this Ticket to Work mean it. They want to help. They want you to be successful.

Finding a job. There is a Find a Job page in your Weblink pod. This is – I – I think this is one of the newer kids on the block. And it’s a resource that will alert you to where jobs could be, who can help you find jobs, and who is specifically able to help a person with a disability find a job in your area. It’s a great way to get started, and it’s a great way to start searching without making any connections, right? No strings attached to this. You know, much like the American Job Centers, the workforce ENs, you can go in there and use their computers to search for jobs, see what’s available in your area. No strings attached. No one is going to say a word. You can go in there and create a resumé, and you can leave and get your own job. No one’s going to say a word.

If you want to reach out to some of these providers because you need help putting a resumé together, then by all means do that. But you can do a lot of this without any obligation to anybody.

Now we’ve got success stories. Success stories are always my favorite part of this thing because these are folks who were on disability benefits, and have tried using the Ticket to Work, and have succeeded. You know, Rob. It’s seven years since we talked to Rob. He’s one of – he’s one of the old-timers for us right now. You know, some of these people, actually you – you get real close to them even though you’re only working via distance. He received Social Security Disability Insurance, so he had a prior work history. He’s now working full time and financially independent. While he was on benefits, he went into bankruptcy and lost his home. Now that house is his again. He’s going to leave that house to his kids. That’s a good thing. We have somebody who went from being homeless to owning their childhood home. His tenacity, his work ethic, courage, and support from the community, and the Ticket to Work, all helped make this possible.

This is Rob’s statement. “Working as a part of a family team . . . blending my history with my wife’s is so rewarding. Planning for a future on this land feels like a major milestone for me. When I was sick, I had to give up a lot. Getting back to work helped me to dramatically – to a dramatically better lifestyle. Ticket to Work and work incentives helped get me there.

So, we don’t pay for commercials. Rob told us that when we asked him, how did this work out? There are lots of other success stories. Just go into the Weblinks pod and you’re going to find them. Get onto Choose Work. You’ll find them. And some of them are incredibly dynamic. I remember one woman who we worked with on a live webinar who had a great, you know, movement from disability benefits to work but then had an exacerbation. But that didn’t stop her. It may have stopped her work for a while. As soon as she was able, she picked it up and did it again. And she succeeded twice using the Ticket to Work. 

All right, Sarah. I’m going to talk about success stories all day long, so you best stop me with questions now.

SARAH>> All right. I’m ready, Ray. We have a lot of questions, and thank you for sharing Rob’s story with us.

The first question that I have for you is, what if I need classes to get ready to join work? For example, Microsoft, Excel, or Word. Would that be included under Ticket to Work?

RAY>> Absolutely. You know, and it’s getting to the point where everybody has to use some kind of computer at work, you know, whether it’s a cash register or a laptop or a desk top. But, yes, training in all of those computer programs. Let’s say you were an administrative assistant before you became disabled, those programs have changed a lot. And it would very much benefit your application to do that job again by saying, I’ve just been trained in Microsoft, in Word, in Excel, in the special programs that might be associated with that job. And yes, that training is available. That’s actually a great example of training through the Ticket to Work.

SARAH>> All right, Ray. Next question I have for you is, does the clock on my Ticket continue even if there is a gap on my employment? For example, if I work for two months and am unemployed for one month, does that count for two months or three?

RAY>> You know, it – it depends on what we’re talking about here. If we’re looking at working with an employment network, if you have an exacerbation and have to stop work for a month, that would only count for two months. There would be a break, and then month three would pick up when you’re ready to go back to work. And the question then becomes, does that Ticket need to be unassigned if it’s going to be an extended absence from work? But that’s a question to be worked out with that employment network. If it’s a month, my guess is the employment network is going to say, stay home, rest, get better, we’ll pick up where you left off when you’re ready.

SARAH>> All right. Next question I have for you, Ray, is, are there work incentives for people starting their own businesses?

RAY>> Absolutely. I mean, working for yourself, becoming self-employed is a unique situation. The first thing you need to know is that if you are fortunate enough to start a business and make $4,000.00 in your first month, that’s not what Social Security counts. What they want to know is what all your business expenses are. So, if you pay $1,000.00 in rent, we’re down to $3,000.00. If you bought stock, whether it be tee shirts, whether it be knickknacks, whatever it is, and that cost you $1,500.00, we’re now down to $1,500.00. All of those business expenses, how much did you pay for electricity? How much did you pay for heat? How much did you pay for telephone services? We can keep knocking that down by using legitimate business expenses. And then what’s left is what is your income. And for the most part, if you do open your own business, people are making money a year-and-a-half or two years later. They may be breaking even, but breaking even means the business is afloat, you know. So, there are those work incentives that are added to the regular work incentives. If you’re going to open your own business on SSI, you know, we’re going to treat some of that income that’s left over after your expenses to reduce your benefits. If you’re on SSDI, the program is a little bit different. You know, you can work for a while and not have anything count and then you move into a different phase. But most certainly these work incentives work on top of the general business deductions that can be taken.

SARAH>> All right. Thank you, Ray. The next question I have for you is, is the Ticket Program recommended for someone interested in seasonal work?

RAY>> You know, somebody who’s interested in seasonal work. That’s a real good thing, you know, because it’s gardening time, isn’t it? At least here in New Mexico it is. You know, so there are lots of new shops opening up after a winter closure. And if you wanted to work in a garden shop, if you want – yes, you could do that with the Ticket to Work. You know, you could run your business plowing driveways, shoveling people out in the wintertime. The question that I have to ask you when you’re thinking about doing that is, what is the goal here? If the goal is to work for four or five months and then go back on benefits for four or five months, that may not be something that an employment network would be able to do. You could do that yourself, and a benefits planner could help you plan that. But if you wanted to work in a garden store, my guess is you’re looking at something that most people consider seasonal work, but there’s a lot of stuff that goes on in those garden stores during the winter. Including planting plants, and nurturing those plants so that they can be sold in the summertime. 

So, I think some types of seasonal work are much more than you think they might be, you know, even if it’s a winter plowing business, you could be working a lot in the winter. And then when you stop, you may be doing a lot of sit-down work to close up that business, and that could take a couple of months. And how long does the start – or how long does it take for you to start up again in the fall? I think some of these seasonal jobs tend to be a bit longer than just the season. 

Working for somebody on a seasonal basis is giving me more trouble because then you’re not looking at an employment network who may be able to get paid for providing you with services. But a benefits planner absolutely should be in place to help you manage that. What’s going to happen to your benefits while you are working? What’s going to happen to benefits when you’re not working? And how are you going to keep the same lifestyle going during both of those times. 

So, that’s a tough question. The services I think you need can be there, you just have to find the right niche for each question that you have.

SARAH>> All right. Thank you, Ray. The next question I have from the audience is, can a Ticket to Work service provider help me with writing my resumé?

RAY>> Absolutely. Absolutely. That’s the first big step, you know. Once you start working with an employment network, if you need education, if you need some kind of training program, you’ll be getting that. That’s the focus. As that training program is ready to issue you a license or a certificate, you are working with your EN continually to make sure that resumé is up to date. And you know the other benefit of working with an employment network is that employment network can help you fill that five-year gap. You weren’t just sitting at home collecting money. That’s not what happened. Employment networks are really good at figuring out what did you do during that period of disability. Were you babysitting your brother’s kids so he could go to work? That’s something that could be turned into a resumé item. So, I think, yes, employment networks can, and if you do or are in need, if you do need or are going to be in need of a resumé, absolutely that’s a service that I would get through the Ticket.

SARAH>> All right. Thank you, Ray. Another question I have for you is, if I am working with multiple service providers, do I also have to work with multiple benefit counselors? 

RAY>> No, no, no, no, no. I think – I think one of each of those service providers is quite enough. You know, if you’re working with an employment network who has a benefits planner on staff, you may choose to stay there. If you don’t want to do that, you can go out to the WIPA program and get a benefits planner there. I think that an employment network and a benefits planner are a good team to start with. Or that may be the vocational rehabilitation and a benefits planner. If you’re looking for a four-year or two-year degree to get back to work. So you – you only need to reach out to what you need. If you have a couple of different issues, you should be able to work with one employment network to get those issues met. The benefits planner then works with the plan that you have with the employment network to be able to project what is going to happen to your benefits as you make progress towards your goal.

So a couple of these people – you may never need legal services for this. You may go right through everything, and get a job, and are working on the job, getting some support, and, you know, support goes away, and you’re happily working. You don’t have an employment issue. So, you don’t need that lawyer. But, you know, if you do, it’s there. These services are all there for you to access. But only one benefits planner. You only need one employment network.

SARAH>> All right. Thank you, Ray. I have a follow-up question about benefits – a benefits counselor. Once I decide on a benefits counselor, what can I expect them to ask me?

RAY>> Well, clearly they’re going to start asking you about all of your benefits. You know, they want to know. They will help you find out if you’re not sure. You know, and that – people usually know if they get SSI or SSDI. What people tend not to know is what type of subsidized housing are you living in? Because you’re just living in subsidized housing. Most people don’t understand that there are a myriad of programs providing them. Each one works in a different way, so we need to narrow that down to the specific type that you have.

They’re going to ask you about food stamps. They’re going to ask you what kind of healthcare do you have. In some cases, they may ask you what kind of resources do you have. If we’re putting a plan together for you, we could utilize some of your own resources to help put this plan together and get it to work. You know, they want to know. They’re going to ask you to sign releases of information for each program that you mention so that they can then verify. You know, because if you tell me you get around $800.00 in SSI, that’s not going to help a lot. So, I am going to talk to Social Security, or send a release and get information from Social Security, that tells me exactly how much you get. Then I’ll be able to make projections closer to the mark. And we want to be as close to that mark as possible.

You know, so there’s a lot of information these benefits planners need. The more you give, the more we can do for you. And you need to know that benefits counseling is a very confidential matter. Everybody who does it has file cabinets that are locked at the end of the day. You know, in my office, if I wanted a file, I had to request it in the morning, and it was one person in that office had a key to the file cabinet. And they brought the files I needed to work on that day to me. I then brought them back, and they checked to see if all seven of them were there, and they locked them up again. So, no one is sharing your information with anybody. So, you need to know it’s confidential, but we need as much information from you as you’re willing to give. What was your last work experience like? Why did it end? Have you worked since you’ve become eligible for benefits? Did you have benefits planning before that one? Because if you have it now before you go back to work, you’re likely to have a different experience. Did you incur an overpayment? Everything we’ve already discussed. We need to figure out why that happened. What did you do about that overpayment?

So, there’s a lot of information that we need. But, again, the more you give us, the better picture and better projections you get back.

SARAH>> All right. Thank you, Ray. Unfortunately, we are out of time for questions for today’s webinar. Thank you to the audience for sending in all of your questions. We hope we’ve provided answers to your questions about the Ticket Program. And many thanks to Ray for being with us today and sharing his knowledge of the Ticket to Work Program.

RAY>> You’re very welcome, Sarah. It’s always a pleasure.

SARAH>> You as well, Ray. Thank you.

Social Security’s Ticket to Work Program has a number of service providers and other resources ready to help you get started. To get a list of providers in your area, or to get answers to questions that you may have about the Ticket Program and other work incentives, you can contact the Ticket to Work Help Line at 1-866-968-7842, or, for TTY, 1-866-833-2967. That’s Monday through Friday, from 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. Eastern Time. Or you can always visit the Ticket to Work website at choosework.ssa.gov. And you can also find us on social media or subscribe to the blog and email updates by visiting choosework.ssa.gov/contact/index.html. This link appears in the Weblinks pod under Ticket to Work Contact Information.

To get advice and encouragement and read success stories from people who have had success with help from the Ticket to Work Program, you can receive text message from the Ticket Program. Simply text ticket, t – i – c – k – e – t, to 474747. Standard messaging rates may apply, and you may opt out at any time.

Please join us for the next WISE webinar, Ticket to Work, Healthcare and the Path to Employment, which will be held on Wednesday, April 28, 2021, from 3:00 to 4:30 p.m. Eastern Time. Registration is open, and we look forward to having you attend. To register online, go to choosework.ssa.gov/WISE. Or you can call 1-866-968-7842. Or, for TTY, 1-866-833-2967.

And your feedback is very important to us, and it helps us plan for future webinars. Please provide your feedback and tell us what you think about today’s webinar by taking our survey. To take the survey, you can follow the links that will pop up after the webinar, or you can visit the Ticket to Work website to complete the survey. The survey can also be found in the Weblinks pod.

Thank you again for attending today to learn about the Ticket to Work Program. Please take this opportunity to reach out to any of the resources we discussed today and take the next step on your career path.

This concludes today’s webinar. Have a wonderful evening. Thank you.